Posts by Chris Hannover

27

Ex-Christians being angry

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

i know i'm angry.

i was curious if others are too.

i feel completely justified in my anger as well.

Chris Hannover

I wonder if it is less anger and more suffocating frustration.

I was angry and/or frustrated because I still believed in their opinions on morality, good, and bad. Christian morality only supports victimhood, self shame, and condemns everything normal for humans. For example, money is bad, sex is bad, self esteem is bad, being a doormat is good, blindly doing what im told is good, being the victim is good, standing up for myself is bad, etc.

I was trying to be healthy, but every healthy move I made violated the backwards morals of Christians. Incredibly frustrating.

Only when I realized that their submission based morals were unhealthy did I start to move out of the anger. I am replacing the unhealthy, self loathing Christian morals with morals that appreciate anything that supports a healthy life.

9

Pizza Heaven

by Louise in

jw
friends

i haven't had pizza in absolute ages!!!

today our boss bought in 20 various pizzas to say "well done" for the month of march.

i've eaten like 5 slices already.

Chris Hannover

What I thought when I saw the thread title:

"When you die, if you are given a choice between going to regular heaven or pie heaven, choose pie heaven. It might be a trick, but if it's not, mmmmmmmmmmm, boy." -Jack Handy

67

How do you feel about religion as a whole?

by FatherFirst in

it just seems to me religion in general primarily makes truly bad people worse, not genuinly good people better; and in many cases has even made good people do bad things in the name of their religion.

just curious, a personal poll if you will.

what are you guys' current views on religion as a whole?

Chris Hannover

Religion and spirituality are red herrings.

They are tools used to disguise the inability to process emotions, think clearly, or to validate some unearned claim. Turning the person's real world weakness into imagine strengths that no one is allowed to challenge.

Rather than discussing religion with people, I usually just look for the emotional issue they are trying to hide behind their faith. I try to ignore the irrational, the mystical, and the self absorbed ranting and look at what all the drama actually accomplishes for the person.

107

I have a serious problem

by My Name is of No Consequence in

i have a serious problem that i cannot solve on my own.

i was born-in but am only in by a thread at this point.

i quit the tms a few weeks ago and wrote a post on it.

Chris Hannover

The second post is letting her know that she and the elder are stumbling him. The Bible who she claims to follow directs wives to be in subjection regardless if the husband believes or not

I was just referring to the second post.

She has already bypassed the headship arrangement with the assistance of the elders. The elders would not bypass his headship and consult directly and privately with the wife without a reason, real or imagined. For whatever reason, Myname is viewed as spirituality unqualified at best and apostate at worst. This means he has no headship authority in the eyes of the congregation.

At this point, telling her to be submissive or he will be stumbled would cause more problems, since it will be viewed as a threat to her spirituality.

She follows the Bible in theory, but in reality, she is following the elders in the congregation. Since the elders are already on her side with an unknown agenda, using force right now would be a mistake.

For these reasons, even a hint of a perceived threat to her or a power play against the elders would have serious repercussions on Myname. Force by Myname would play into the elder's plans right now.

Anyway, for what its worth, thats my thought process. The only thing that matters is the elders get their way and when a woman is playing a the helpless victim card, emotions can get high against the perceived threat.

107

I have a serious problem

by My Name is of No Consequence in

i have a serious problem that i cannot solve on my own.

i was born-in but am only in by a thread at this point.

i quit the tms a few weeks ago and wrote a post on it.

Chris Hannover

3rdgen, but that is playing by the official JW rulebook, applicable to active members in good standing only.

Myname's situation is different, he is viewed as outside-of-the-org and those rules no longer apply. He will always be wrong and anyone opposing him will always be right.

He has to establish himself as a member in good standing, only then he can use their rules against them.

107

I have a serious problem

by My Name is of No Consequence in

i have a serious problem that i cannot solve on my own.

i was born-in but am only in by a thread at this point.

i quit the tms a few weeks ago and wrote a post on it.

Chris Hannover

The only thing worse than being a doormat is being a foolish doormat.

You are assuming anyone will care what you have to say, they wont. You will be branded an apostate and you will lose your family. You are making this whole thing about yourself and proving some vague point.

Your plans and your desired outcome don't match up.

You need to realize the whole thing is just a game. You need to play by the rules if you want to win and acknowledge you're not in a position to win right now. You need to backup and come up with a better strategy.

If your ultimate goal is to keep your family, play along with your wife's current needs. If you want her to follow you out, you must first be able to lead. You need to earn her respect, then make a move to leave the org years from now.

Personally, I don't want you to lose your family or your stepson to lose another dad. So, with kindness in my heart, I tell you to stop being a dumbass!

Play along and be a great dad, respected husband, and a casual JW.

10

Going Clear: Jehovah's Witnesses?

by StarTrekAngel in

would it ever happen?

your opinion.

Chris Hannover

Good points, LMR.

JWs are just too boring. They are only interesting to members.

If a child abuse scandal was enough to bring down a religion, the Catholic church would have crumbled. People just don't care if it isn't their kids. Any scandal would be a punchline to some jokes for a week and then something else would distract the masses.

107

I have a serious problem

by My Name is of No Consequence in

i have a serious problem that i cannot solve on my own.

i was born-in but am only in by a thread at this point.

i quit the tms a few weeks ago and wrote a post on it.

Chris Hannover

You don't seem to have the ability or desire to make a stand with your wife or some elders. What you are doing is passive aggressively dragging your feet and being indecisive on where you stand.

Since you aren't picking a side, they're picking a side for you.

"If you cant beat them, join them" applies to you. They are obviously stronger and more capable than you, so you should go back to being an active JW. That is the only way you will have peace. You can be a social JW and just play the part.

Some people aren't built to stand alone, not a failure, just personality.

10

The stars will fall from the sky... but maybe they are better where they are?

by M*A*S*H in

as an atheist interested in debate i have often accused religious folk of suffering cognitive dissonance on many issues.

i stupidly thought i might be immune to such dissonance.

however now i find myself in a battle for my own mind with no obvious end in sight.. i remember being taught as a young jw that the following passage in mark "the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

Chris Hannover

Do you really mean 'removed' or perhaps you mean die out?

Either removed or die out, everything will happen however it will happen.

Should slavery have been allowed to die out naturally or did it need to be removed?

As we grow in knowledge, schools of thought that threaten human decency are removed if they don't die out. Religion is actively resisting humanity's growth and that may ultimately destroy it by whatever means.

10

The stars will fall from the sky... but maybe they are better where they are?

by M*A*S*H in

as an atheist interested in debate i have often accused religious folk of suffering cognitive dissonance on many issues.

i stupidly thought i might be immune to such dissonance.

however now i find myself in a battle for my own mind with no obvious end in sight.. i remember being taught as a young jw that the following passage in mark "the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

Chris Hannover

For civil and human rights to progress, religion must be removed at some point.

Religious "virtues" and "morality" condemn humanity and ignore civil rights in favor of divine authority.

For society and individuals to become healthy, our human nature must be understood, accepted, and appreciated. More evolutionary biology and less burn-them-at-the-stake.